AR3's are worth this much?

[tomt]

ACOUSTIC RESEARCH AR-3 SPEAKERS | eBay

[LICORNE]

AR speakers have never been considered Hi FI . Speakers like vintage Waferdale , Dyn Audio,
Vintage Klispch, JBL classics, B&W , sound much closer to the Altec Model 19 which is the bench mark All speaker mfr. should try to immatate.

[Audio_by_Goodwill]

AR speakers have never been considered Hi FI .

AR speakers are fairly well thought of. To what degree, I'm not sure, since I've never looked for information on them, specifically.

[speakerdave]

AR speakers have never been considered Hi FI . . . .

There are plenty of people who would say the same thing about the Altec Model 19 and to the same degree they would be right.

"Considered" ? By whom?

Demand for audio products from those ancient days is coming (almost always) from a nostalgia subculture spiced with an addition of younger buyers who are discovering what the old folks were doing in their day. Combine that with the price of new stuff that sounds like something, and I think you need to look no further for an explanation of what ebay bidding does at times.

The AR3, and even more, the AR3a, is a decent speaker, unobtrusive, listenable for long periods, low distortion in the mid and upper ranges and flat frequency response. It epitomizes what was then and is now still sometimes called the New England sound, which was associated with listening to classical music at reasonable volumes in small rooms, often in apartments. This type of speaker was a by product of the stereo era, which made large speakers problematic, because two of them well positioned was difficult to achieve in most living rooms not dedicated to the purpose, and coincided also with the move to solid state, less expensive, low output impedance, more powerful amplifiers, which did not then and do not now match well with efficient light-coned woofers, horns and compression drivers.

By today's standards the AR3(a) and the later 10Pi both lack dynamism and definition, but I think they compete well at the $1000 price point for some people, although I would not choose them myself. There are later, better speakers available for that money, in my opinion. But that it is not the same thing as saying it was never considered a hi fi speaker. It was, and by a lot of well-respected listeners.

[David Yost]

I can't comment on the value question, but to suggest that AR speakers were not hi-fi is ludicrous--they, along with KLH and a handful of other NE manufacturers, practically defined hi-fi during most of the "golden-age" of the mid '50s through mid '70s, besides having measurably deeper bass, flatter frequency response and wider dispersion than anything Altec ever offered for home use during the time period. Low midbass distortion and high efficiency are areas where the "west coast" speakers of the era may have excelled, but these are not usually considered "hi-fi" criteria.

BTW, I don't have a "religious" attachment to any camp and enjoy Altec, JBL and UREI high efficiency systems alongside various planar electrostatics and acoustic suspension systems.

[MANZANITA]

NO!

[bowtie427ss]

Four bidders felt they were worth more than $850.00.

Maybe they perceive a holy image in the grill cloth stain.

[Altec Best]

There are plenty of people who would say the same thing about the Altec Model 19 and to the same degree they would be right.

"Considered" ? By whom?

Your Talking about opinions correct ? And as plenty would be the minority IME.

[voice of the theater]

There are plenty of people who would say the same thing about the Altec Model 19 and to the same degree they would be right.

I would have to agree with you that there are plenty of people out there who would say that Altec Model 19 speakers are not "hi fi". Romy the Cat and his multitude of online aliases/personalities over at his website/forum (and elsewhere), plus I'm sure we could get thousands of people who would agree that Altec Model 19's don't have "hi fi" sound quality if we took a poll of the Miracle Ear Network members...... In all seriousness I would have to say it's hard to judge how good a pair of speakers sound when your head is far up your @ss (not you speakerdave, but the "plenty of people who would say the same thing about the Altec Model 19", THEM).

I can't comment on the value question, but to suggest that AR speakers were not hi-fi is ludicrous--they, along with KLH and a handful of other NE manufacturers, practically defined hi-fi during most of the "golden-age" of the mid '50s through mid '70s, besides having measurably deeper bass, flatter frequency response and wider dispersion than anything Altec ever offered for home use during the time period. Low midbass distortion and high efficiency are areas where the "west coast" speakers of the era may have excelled, but these are not usually considered "hi-fi" criteria......

OK, this statement is a sweeping generalization and over simplification if I ever heard one. I'm not going to join a debate about which speaker manufacturer made better speakers AR or Altec Lansing. I know AR speakers have their merits and certainly qualify as hi fi, but to say that they have "measurably deeper bass, flatter frequency response and wider dispersion than anything Altec ever offered for home use during the time period" is way too general of a statement. "ANYTHING Altec ever offered for home use during that time period"??? Really? ANYTHING? So, according to that logic, you're saying the AR 1 speakers have a flatter response than the Model 19's? I'm sorry, and I'm not generally an argumentative person, but I'd like to see some actual measurements before I believe such a sweeping generalization/over simplification regarding Altec's entire line of home speakers from that time period. The Model 19 (with crossovers controls set to optimum position) gets a pretty flat response according to any measurements I've ever seen. But you're saying AR speakers are more flat than ANY Altec speakers offered for home use during that time period. I'm not saying that some (or possibly even many) AR speakers don't have a flatter response than some (or possibly many) Altec Lansing speakers from the same era, but I won't believe that AR speakers have a flatter frequency response than ANYTHING Altec ever offered for home use during that time period". I just did a quick google search. Figure 3 on this page shows the frequency response curve of an AR-1. Certainly not perfect (as no speaker is).
Acoustic Research AR-1 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Here is the frequency response curve of the Model 19's (check the curve for the 19's with crossover controls set in "optimum" positioin). I'm no expert but they look more flat to me. I could look for more examples but it's not worth my time. I knew before I even looked that your statement was way to general and oversimplified to be true.....
http://www.altecpro.com/pdfs/vintage...r%20Manual.pdf

Low midbass distortion and high efficiency are areas where the "west coast" speakers of the era may have excelled, but these are not usually considered "hi-fi" criteria......

Yes, many of the classic Altecs have low midbass distortion and high efficiency. I'll give you that. I think you're leaving out a lot of other things they're known for. For example, the light coned woofers that Altec manufactured are not only highly efficient, but their "light" design helps them to be extremely accurate reproducers (w/faster/transients for example --say for applications such as listening to music!). I'm not going to spend the time to list the top 10 ways that Vintage Altecs excel, suffice it to say that they don't only excel at having low midbass distortion and high efficiency--that is doing a whole myriad of classic Altec speaker systems a huge injustice...... I know there's a lot more to hi fi than flat response and accurate overall sound reproduction, but those are certainly two important factors. Yes there are many tweeters that have wider dispersion patterns than many horns can provide, but the mantaray for example has a nice wide dispersion pattern -- certainly wide enough for my demands/personal taste.....

I waited a few days to respond to this thread because I knew if I responded immediately I'd submit a pretty p*ssed of post. I guess waiting didn't help much. Here's a generalized statement I do think is true: say whatever you want about me, but be careful what you say about my Altecs! :snickerpup:

[speakerdave]

The simple and direct answer to the questions is, "Not to me." But it only takes a couple of bidders with a wild hair to make this kind of thing happen on ebay. Collecting, nostalgia, excitement of the the game are all factors, I assume.

Yeah, I meant that at some point everyone's choices or opinion become an irrefutable and inarguable factor. I don't form a judgement about the Altec 19 myself, having never heard it, but I do know its appeal is not universal.

Listened to plenty of Altecs though, some of them (Heath legatos, Magnificents, 604 8G, stock) for a long time, though I cannot do it now.

People choose speakers for many reasons, some of them not directly connected to their sonic quality. As to the sonic quality, since no speakers are perfect, you have to find a pair whose positive qualities you like and whose imperfections you can ignore. Sometimes over the long run you can't ignore them any more, so you must modify or change--or listen less, and that often happens after several changes.

Or you can sing.